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Well Done! The first political figure who came to my mind while reading this was Jim Jordan. Aside from that thought I certainly have commentary to provide and observations to make, so I shall return to this tomorrow to do just that. For now here is some good related reading material for you to add to your library.

"Inside Russia’s Notorious ‘Internet Research Agency’ Troll Farm"

https://spyscape.com/article/inside-the-troll-factory-russias-internet-research-agency

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Thanks so much Robert! Yep Jordan is a prime example. Look forward to your commentary and observations at your leisure. The troll farm article looks like a very good summary. Is it yours? Cheers!

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Sam I came across this short piece, that might be of interest to you, as I was researching for an essay to write about the parallels between Stephan Miller and Joseph Goebbels .

Secretary says Nazi propagandist Goebbels was a 'narcissist'

"An aloof narcissist who rarely made pleasantries was one of many sides of a man as cold in private as he was colorful in public, said Pomsel, who worked as his secretary."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/04/22/secretary-pomsel-recalls-nazi-joseph-goebbels/26066809/

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Nov 14, 2023·edited Nov 14, 2023Author

Thanks Robert. Probably not as well-versed as you are in the nazi era nor have I done an in-depth psychological profile of Goebbels but well-educated in the era. I made a side by side meme of the two and asked if Goebbels is really an evil time-traveler because they look and act so similar. Both have long appeared to be clinical narcissists at a minimum. Of course I put qualifiers and maybes for legal purposes.

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I would very much like to check out your meme, and if it is appropriate perhaps use it within my essay when I finish cobbling it together.

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It is really just two pictures of them looking similar put together so easy to make your own.

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Have you had an opportunity to read Alexander Vindmans latest posting?

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I have not but I'm a fan.

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The title is "Active Measures and Influence Operations: Creating Chaos for Opportunity"

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Speaking of the farm, have a read through below.

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I’ve been following. those two brothers since Trump Inc were at Peak Gutless Savage Stage

I’m trying, among others to engage & deliver coherent observation, analysis - even lateral solutions - problem solving - initiate or reignite Best Practices

Hell, in Canada we face adversaries doing usa workshops on every Mis or Dis Information or Divisive malignant metastatic stochastic Viral Media Campaign Attack with bonus How to Teach & Share Riding Level Vote Degradation Techniques.. I should dangle and argue for the win with trolls ? What ?

It’s my view - ‘we’ can identify The Actual flesh & blood People .. from WarRoom High Tables on down into the Upper Layers and begin harvesting their clues, habits, location, previous attacks, funding and flood ‘Their Zone With Shit Publicly / daily / via OUR guerrilla strategies.. after all.. They Weaponize Our Personal Data against ‘us’ - These Persons have ASTONISHING VENIALITY ..

Think of the Historic Apex Diseased ‘public servants’ judging that deploying SMALLPOX and/or Wiping Out The Buffalo, Legislating First Nations Children into Religious Schools ‘make perfectly good sense’. Hell ! We had a Prime Minister who defied The Courts over 5 years to fulfill his Governmental Mandate to Enact Endangered Species Protection of Boreal Caribou - Due to HABITAT DESTRUCTION & Instead Legislated Air Dropping Strychnine loaded Meat Baits to Poison Boreal Wolves also losing Same Habitat.. this at request of Big Bitumen & Big Methane ..

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I had some observations from the other night's reading of this fine article, but they are eluding me right now given how much I have on my mind lately; when I remember them I will be sure to return and comment then. As to the troll farm article it is not something that I wrote. It is simply one of the many things in my collection of items of interest. In particular because trolls frequently try to engage with me in various ways and for what I suspect are somewhat differing purposes in a small number of cases, cases wherein I suspect I am receiving a visit from the farm in the article.

I have been online with an active email addresses since October 1996 when Yahoo first offered free email accounts; and so I have certainly experienced the WWW in the fullness of its many ways. I remember being trolled back 2006 at a scam exposing website when I helped to reveal a fraudulent money scam website, I id eventual prevail and got my own money back and the the perpetrator was eventually prosecuted and jailed.

I am also wondering as of late if maybe political trolls are learning from individuals like you so as to create new strategies for newer subtler cognitive dissonance tactics. Have you any thoughts about such a scenario?

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Nov 12, 2023·edited Nov 13, 2023Author

It is indeed a regular concern to not give narcissists & predators any ideas & do hold A LOT of intelligence back for primarily that reason! That is also why CNI will only work for honorable clients because we will never willingly help any narcissist be a better one. The CNI mission is to weaken them all, not make any stronger.

What it usually comes down to is whether it is more important that the public be warned vs. giving a bad person better ways to implement their bad, sinister & nefarious ideas. Frankly, the smart ones know everything revealed instinctively so highly unlikely to be helping them in any way, & the less intelligence ones likely think they know everything already, so most CNI ideas are a foreign language to them.

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I suspected that you might navigate the good ship CNI in that way, and wise of you to do so. I ask because, as I say I suspect that I may have recently encountered a previous problem troll in a new reincarnation albeit operating in a "soft mode." I am a highly intuitive individual, the result by and largely of my being a medically deaf individual who has learned to interpret my perceptions of communications in a very different manner than the super-majority of persons, hence my high level writing skills, textual information for me amounts to a voice that is akin to being sound for my eyes. As I am fond of saying "my eyes are my ears." In any event I noticed in some of your postings a familiar seeming "voice" engaged what I can only describe as a interrogatory line of inquiry coached as "concern."

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this was a fascinating read.. we’ve long known of such cyber bureaus

just we know about Boomer nukes, Intelligence in/out Ditortion in/out Data in/out

threat & counter-threat and SPY VERSUS SPY !

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I rarely encounter trolls on the sites I use now, after leaving twitter, and it's so much better for my peace of mind. Can't entirely avoid the real life trolls such as our maga banner neighbors ("make liberals cry again!"), but even they aren't uninhibited enough to broach the subject in person.

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Nov 8, 2023·edited Nov 8, 2023Liked by Sam Ray

✨As usual, very interesting read, Sam ! ✨

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Nov 8, 2023Liked by Sam Ray

“darkness hunts everywhere” is the real take-home message here, and also the very thing that normal, feeling, compassionate folks cannot seem to wrap their heads around. We need the Hare Psychopathy Checklist made common knowledge here. These aliens who walk among us (often our bosses or acquaintances or spouses or even our parents) are human wrecking balls and cause untold damage wherever they land.

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Very well said Lisa. I completely agree and much of it is a big part of the mission of CNI. I never thought about a piece promoting Dr. Hare's PCL-R and probably should have. I'll need to give it some thought. Thanks!

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founding

So I have two questions: Is it better ( from one’s own self satisfaction) to respond to a troll and essentially shut them down w a clever point or phrase or reference even if the troll either is not aware of being “owned” ( dense moron) or continues ignoring the logic/truth and continues the malignant unsupportive arguments. Or just block?

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It really is on a case by case basis of how much you want to engage, but clown and block is strong. The way it works for me is I see a troll say something that is insanely untrue or manipulative propaganda, I clown it and/or expose it or them in a response, and then I block them immediately, because jousting with them is rarely worth my time.

If someone trolls you on your own thread or post, you can usually remove their comment as well if that is preferred. I removed a neo-fascist toxic comment from a Note just yesterday but it's fortunately still rare.

In reality, your response is not for the troll. It is for those who will see what the troll declares and your counter to it. The goal is your comment helps someone not sure of the truth to consider your reasoned and reality-based comment over a trolls manipulation comments.

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Does that mean that any time you respond to an online post with a different position , does that make you a Troll , im confused now

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If you respond with what you believe without ill intent, you are technically not trolling. Trolls try to trigger people as opposed to debate on sincere belief. If you are sincere but know you are triggering people, that's a close call.

Those who do some or most of this are trolls. - "parachute into a public feed, thread or comment, and in bad faith and/or with bad intentions, post moronic, inflammatory or maliciously disruptive comments, images or points of view. They do this to deliberately trigger, trick, provoke or upset people, all in hopes of causing the debate or conversation to change course, go in a negative direction, or — the ultimate goal — completely devolve into some combination of confusion, shock, horror, outrage, hurt feelings, anger, and/or just plain old chaos."

If you would like more details of the troll world, definitely check out the profile.

https://samray.substack.com/p/dark-trolls-a-psychological-profile

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I think I did that once but it was not my intent.

Next thing you know , im getting a response , i Don't know about their pain, their suffering, im evil a troll, Fuck off, shit I just showed a different position, not trying to counter their opinion , just a different point of view.

Im not a Psychiatrist!

I thought holy shit?

Im kinda new to this , im finding people can be very sensitive or insensitive.

And if you have a different view or challenge their view , ooh thats not good?

Oh well, or Orwell 😂

Sam thanks for writing back, can you tell me how to copy and paste a link in to a post?

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Prob best to search net by asking for your specific need. How to...?

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Thanks Again

Im ok on a pc, phone not so much

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Thanks

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Most welcome.

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founding

Yes, I see that now. Better to make a clear, well thought out point/response for the other readers rather than engage ( because it will never be meaningful and then one winds up not much different from the troll or any member of the triad).

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Exactly!

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one’s own satisfaction, while valid, isn’t probably the highest value with which to assess the value of correcting or negating trolls. and for another thing, one never s knows in advance how unpleasant the troll is going to become and how much they will resort to personal attacks on you, even doxing you if you use a semi-anonymous account or SM profile. i face of with CC deniers (of their various ilk) and nuclear power advocates who typically lie a about the benefits and costs of renewable energy a lot, but less than i used to, and for me the measure is as follows. is this a forum where they’re having any significant influence on the minds of the undecided or uneducated public? i also consider the behaviour of the troll in the past on twitter. how unpleasant are they likely to become, how low will they go just to endure they always get the last word in. you can never, ever get the last word in against somebody who does want you to, so that’s a consideration bc trolls when corrected or presenter with evidence which strongly contradicts their claims will almost always shift the goal posts and slide into a “gish gallop” of claim hopping in an attempt to drown a valid critic in counter claims, deflections and personal nastiness. if you’re a sensitive being, this threat is real, and it gives them a certain (negative/pathological) power in public forums, be it virtual forums or real venues.

while having people prepared to respond to trolls with facts, evidence and even good humoured satire can benefit the public as a forum of T-cell/anti-viral/inoculation it takes a certain strength of character (and possibly a certain type of ego) to engage safely, respectfully and effectively that benefits your side of the argument. and even then it can come a long term cost to the individual doing the (unpaid) counter-trolling work. as the author says, case by case. I was going to say horses for courses but horse racing industry is extremely cruel to horses, especially the ones that never make it.

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I don’t think it’s about the intensity or the argument used but rather as Sam Ray states, the intent and whether one stays w/in the boundaries of civil discourse. This doesn’t mean one can’t be fervent in their argument. I have an old friend I’ve known since university and since then he’s taken a sharp right into ultra conservatism. We go back and forth using references and quotes from our own ( usually same news feeds) but it never goes into the gutter. He was a former Trump supporter but didn’t check his brain at the voting booth door and now sees the depravity and callousness of the Magas. Still an arch conservative though.

I wouldn’t worry about the typos as most of us here are not really concerned w every crossed t or the correct use of spacing. We’re not auditioning for The New Yorker.

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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023

I agree civility is important and to the extent one can discern another persons intent or “good faith” on an electronic forum, well that counts too in terms of staying in a conversation with them.

I think what I wrote underlines that. but at the same time, I'm going to debate topics that I think matter to the greater population not personal obsessions because ultimately I'm not trying to convince someone I'm talking to, perhaps you, of what I'm saying. I'm writing for others who are not knowledgeable about a topic I have expertise in and don't want them swallowing propaganda.

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founding

Personal obsession vs universal argument both supported by reason science, what’s the difference? I take great pleasure reflecting upon the dinning-kruger effect when faced w someone, blood thirsty shark or not, who is atop the “mountain of ignorance “.

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founding

dunning-kruger

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so about the typos. my iPad physical keyboard attachement doesn’t have an operational space bar or arrow keys, so I have to hold down shift when i type “space” and it tends to introduce many extra typos on top of my usual quota!

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just wanted to say sharks, and Great White sharks in particular are a much maligned family/species of fishes and such imagery as used in this post is very effective in communicating the point of the article, but also has the unintended side-effect of reinforcing this stereotype about sharks in general and Great White sharks in particular. Why does this matter? Sharks are still hunted and culled and get caught, just to die, in shark nets around popular beaches in Australia and many other places. Their populations are rapidly declining, and cutting their fins of for the Chinese restaurant market (both on China’s mainland, but also everywhere else in the world with Chinese restaurants) is still happening, even where it’s supposedly illegal, in massive numbers. the perception of sharks by humans is therefore important to their survival today.

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I appreciate noting the danger real life sharks are in and sympathetic to the cause of trying to stop so many sharks from being needlessly slaughtered by humans, but I do not see any connection between pointing out their similarities with human types of predators nor I can find any equally well-suited behavioral example to describe the predators swimming amongst humanity. If you think of one, please let me know but until I find a replacement, I must prioritize saving humanity first.

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hmm… metaphors for psych-narcs., serial killers. child abusers who are a "friend of the family" or local priest come to mind as more appropriate metaphors… though they don't come with it stamped on their foreheads, unfortunately.

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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023Author

So no replacement for shark to blood then as an example of how malignant narcissists smell and attack weaknesses like sharks to blood?

Always fascinating to have someone declare what you think and yet they have a fundemental misunderstanding of who you are, thus soundimg arrogant and foolish.

You put forth your argument and that's fine but i don't want to see another word here wrongly connecting what you are trying to connect. Anything further is resembling trolling behavior patterns and will not be tollerated here. Be silent or be banished.

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Nov 28, 2023·edited Nov 28, 2023

because the similarities are in your imagination not in marine science I guess. study sharks a bit and you'll understand. there are people who free dive with Great White Sharks all the time. Of all the shark species, Great Whites and Tigers are the only ones with a track record of attacking humans, and its mostly in conditions of poor visibility and where their tend to prey on fish. Great White sharks are not psychotic or psychopathic, that's typically a human domain pathology, so the "similarities" are moot. They are efficient predators, yes. They have clichés galore sung about them, yes. you wouldn't be the first person to repeat these clichés if you think you need to.

False dichotomy about saving humanity and clinging to your misunderstanding of sharks. You can continue to do the first without clinging to the later.

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So no replacement for shark to blood then as an example of how malignant narcissists smell and attack weaknesses like sharks to blood?

Always fascinating to have someone declare what you think and yet they have a fundemental misunderstanding of who you are, thus soundimg arrogant and foolish.

You put forth your argument and that's fine but i don't want to see another word here wrongly connecting what you are trying to connect. Anything further is resembling trolling behavior patterns and will not be tollerated here. Be silent or be banished.

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