"Thank You. I read with interest. I worked with many children on the spectrum during a long career, some much more severely impacted than others. None took pleasure in hurting others. When it was explained to them that they had, they were sorry. Elon is both complex and unpleasant." - @AnnMB48 - 3/30/23
Mh......both my parents are different types of Narcissists. I lived with my mother from the age of nine after they divorced, my brother was sent to my brutal father about a year later (at 7) because he was "difficult". My brother told me he got diagnosed with Narcissism, I got sexually abused by my mother's second husband at 12, she abused me very subtily, brougjt me down, confused me with mixed messages, jealousy, even hatred, etc. I found out at 42 that I am an HSP and Introvert and thought I had BPD. My brother, I and my two sisters have developed very differently. One of my sisters, 9 years younger than me, was my father's golden child and is a Narcissist, as well, my half sister is narcissistic. About two years ago, after leaving a man who seemingly did nothing bad to me but got me suicidal like my mother did, I found out him and her are what we call "covert Narcissists", I prefer HG Tudor's description of a mid-range Narcissist, though. I them realised I have(had) CPTSD due to the abuse. In my worst days I matched the Autism spectrum. One of my Exes is an Aspergers, we were a couples for five years, so when someone told me that a friend(he's a Psychologist and "knows" him for about 20 years) of my narc Ex diagnosed him an Aspergers by his behaviours, I knew that this diagnosis was rubbish. I read that Elon has CPTSD today, he's diagnosed Aspergers and HG Tudor (check him on Youtube) has diagnosed him a Narcissist. I stick with the latter, it takes a lot to see through these very much overlapping diagnoses. The difficulty behind all of this, imo, is to understand a person's intentions behind their words and actions. I've been mistaken for a Borderline while my reactions came from CPTSD, the ongoing abuse I've endured and my toxic environment, throughout 49 years of my life. Since having learned about it two years ago, I made huge changes and I can easily detect which of my behaviours came from the abuse and which ones are my real personality.
Thank you for sharing Stellar. Apologies for the delay. Minus the AS aspect, your story sadly sounds like dozens if not hundreds I have read. I hope you know you didn't deserve any of it. Personally, I find covert narcissist very useful because it is accurately descriptive and a warning. I don't get anything out of mid-range but if it works for you, that's all that matters. I have noticed that Borderline gets inaccurately thrown around a lot, and I have never found its diagnosis either clear or very useful in CNI work either. Hopefully you can find a loving person/people who can help you heal more.
My mom was a narcissist. I didn't understand her until I got older and did some "reverse engineering ". There was domestic violence in my home but I was fortunate that I was able to get away from it. Of course, I had plenty of therapy at various times throughout my childhood/ younger adulthood. Part of that therapeutic process was confronting my mother about the abuse. I can't forget her reaction. My mother said, "I was a victim too".
Yes, an adult victim. Not quite the same as a dependent child.
I do not know all of my mother's diagnosis but I was told she had some form of Borderline Personality disorder although it seemed like some sort of narcissism to me and maybe that was included. I have a great deal of empathy for her.-to be stuck in a self- centered POV and not to be able to get past that! Wow.So difficult and so limiting. I don't know if the clinical information at the time, 1979s? Was correct but we understood this as borderline personality disorder.
Welcome RV and thank you for your message and paid subscription. Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it, all things considered and hopefully CNI will provide some further calm and clarity. I often grew up feeling guilty for having a loving Mom who to this day is still one of my best friends. It is truly amazing this somewhat hidden epidemic of kids being messed up by narcissists has so many repetitive themes.
Many in the CNI community have also shared their stories of narcissist moms and or dads. I praise and thank you for sharing your story, to help others see examples of those who have gone through and moved forward after unjust parental circumstances, and aiding in the understanding that it takes a lot of good therapy and loving environments to get back to mostly good.
The question I would ask as a tell of BPD is did your mom ever show a fair amount of self-awareness that her actions were making her own life miserable and wanted to change to make her life better. Not fake or insincere when caught change though. Those with BPD seem to be the only narcissists who have that level of self-awareness that they contribute to their on misery.
Actually, I think the joke on how many people does it take to change a light bulb was made with her in mind! A joke, but seriously the world needed to change, never my mom! I don't know that she had any insight on her condition and that is why I had a great deal of empathy for her. I am an old chicken myself, now and she has past on, so this is all old stories that perhaps can help others.
Of course growing up was not about being super understanding but more like lots of angry and misery due to a lack (often) of not having support, acceptance and affection. A narcissistic parent with BPD often depending on their issues is a mystery to themselves but due to the narcissism can be very demanding and needy without realizing the impact or needs of others like their children. Obviously, there is a gradation on these issues so it isn't all gloom and doom.
I came across your substack and thought I would check it out. My education was not in clinical science but in lab/ research/chemistry but I learned quite a bit as a science major and the standard premed undergrad classes before it becam straight molecule bending was a good base. I guess like most folks with a curious mindset tried to figure out what is going on by applying a little (or a lot!) of reverse-engineering on the symptoms and behaviors to figure out my parents. I most definitely worked through a book i had on personality disorders!
thx Sam… enlightening. maybe i’m spectrum as well as neuro stuff.
and for decades $5 is a lot, which is why i have no paid subscriptions. (long story) the disability/social security income is 810/mo. 5 is a bag of apples or a dozen eggs … i appreciate the work done by so many here on Substack… i appreciate being informed.
I believe he wants to inspire and excite humanity into a bright technological future, but then he consistently undermines his own science leadership, credibility and mission, with unnecessarily toxic, unscientific conspiracies.
is incorrect and I believe a mistaken understanding of Musk. Musk often says he wants to inhabit Mars . In fact this was given as the reason he needed an absurd side bonus because going to Mars was expensive. The latter is a lie. Musk cares first and foremost about $$ in his own pocket. The cover story of needed the $$ to bring humanity to Mars is a fraud like most of the nonsense Musk promotes. So parts 2 and 3 unfortunately for you should be free for all.
You are understandably conflating things that are not connected as parts 2-4 show. You are missing Musk can truly want to "inspire and excite humanity into a bright technological future" for purely his own benefit and glory, while also being compulsively fixated on putting $ in his pocket, as well as using it as a rationalization to justify any absurd bonus, as his psychological profile predicts and warns. I suspect you are not a sci-fi fan, because if you were you would likely see how he is really into making reality, sci-fi, and you would understand how both things can be true; Or your vision is clouded by a visceral hatred many understandably have of him based on his psychologically driven horrible behavior. Nice try though.
I would like to be able to read more, but I’m on a fixed income and got scammed out of my savings through my loneliness after my husband passed away. I truly don’t have $5 to give.
Most welcome. The CNI goal is to have philanthropists support the work so those around the world who $5 means a lot to can have full access. The Elon piece is CNI's tent-pole to raise funds to support the work
We have some wonderfully kind & caring paid subscribers supporting the work when they don't have to, for the benefit of all.
Obviously, much more support is needed from those who can afford it, which is why the more commercial profile is 50% paywall.
For those who hate narcissists & can afford it, please give generously so we can counter more narcissists, do more small kindnesses & take more active measures.
@Sam Ray, your essay resonated with me on a deeply personal level, and I appreciate the thoughtful and layered exploration of Musk’s behaviors through the lenses of childhood trauma, narcissism, and neurodivergence. It’s refreshing to see these dynamics unpacked with such depth and care.
Reading your analysis, I found myself reflecting on my own experiences. Growing up with a mother who exhibited traits of narcissistic borderline personality disorder—and possibly a narcissistic father as well—I experienced her primarily as an oppressor. She could be cruel to the point of fault, exploiting me while simultaneously being perceived by others as a generous and kind person. Those on the outside respected her deeply, as long as they stayed on her good side. This duality—the private cruelty and public admiration—was deeply confusing and shaped much of my early life.
Your essay also brought to mind my own neurodivergence. While I’ve been tested for autism and Asperger Syndrome with negative results, I’ve always been highly sensitive and over-empathic, which makes navigating a world of social power dynamics especially challenging. My capacity for nearly inhuman hyper-focus has served me in certain areas, yet it also ties me to patterns shaped by childhood survival mechanisms.
In reading about Musk’s paradoxes—his capacity for brilliance alongside destructive tendencies—I saw reflections of my own history and, in some ways, of my mother’s behaviors. It took me four years of therapy to identify toxic shame as the underlying force in my struggles. During that time, I came to realize how disconnected I had been from my authentic self, shaped by years of living under survival mechanisms forged in an environment marked by narcissistic exploitation.
Your framing of Musk’s behaviors helped me see how often individuals like him—or even those of us shaped by similar dynamics—are reduced to simplistic narratives. Public figures are either celebrated or condemned, while the deeper complexities driving their actions are overlooked. Understanding these patterns is not just essential for analyzing public figures but also for helping those of us whose lives have been shaped by such dynamics find our way toward healing and wholeness.
Due to financial constraints, I currently live on 350 Euros a month with my cat, which makes it difficult for me to explore the next parts of your series. I don’t know if these ideas come up later, but I’m curious if you see ways to apply this understanding more broadly—not just in profiling influential figures but in supporting those who have been shaped by narcissistic environments. How might we use this awareness to help individuals reconnect with parts of themselves that have been hidden or suppressed?
Thank you for your thoughtful exploration of these themes. I look forward to seeing more of your work as it becomes available.
Musk is a sociopath, let us not dilute this any further. Musk is a grave danger and perhaps Eisenhower’s poster child of the threat in the military industrial complex he warned us about in his final speech as President.
Thanks and you are welcome Mimi. I wanted to root for Elon but sadly, after the four-part psychological profiling of him and his behavioral downward spiral ever since, I said have come to the conclusion from a psychological perspective that he is now far more likely to destroy humanity than to save it, because any goodness in him is quickly overwhelmed and manipulated by more dominant narcissists. Essentially, despite moments of brilliance, he almost certainly will never overcome his self-immolating narcissism caused by massive trama.
"Thank You. I read with interest. I worked with many children on the spectrum during a long career, some much more severely impacted than others. None took pleasure in hurting others. When it was explained to them that they had, they were sorry. Elon is both complex and unpleasant." - @AnnMB48 - 3/30/23
"This is so cool! We need more thoughtful analysis of "mentally challenged" leaders. The article looks great." - S.H.
It's almost as if @ElonMusk's A.I. read my #psychological profile of him?
"unnecessarily trolling California while praising Republican run Texas was strategically unwise, with Tesla’s customer base being primarily liberal." https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/gavin-newsom-and-elon-musk-recharge-bromance-at-tesla-announcement/ar-AA17OC16
"Part 1 is nicely crafted. Nice job and thanks for sharing" - @kikobar@acc4e.com
Mh......both my parents are different types of Narcissists. I lived with my mother from the age of nine after they divorced, my brother was sent to my brutal father about a year later (at 7) because he was "difficult". My brother told me he got diagnosed with Narcissism, I got sexually abused by my mother's second husband at 12, she abused me very subtily, brougjt me down, confused me with mixed messages, jealousy, even hatred, etc. I found out at 42 that I am an HSP and Introvert and thought I had BPD. My brother, I and my two sisters have developed very differently. One of my sisters, 9 years younger than me, was my father's golden child and is a Narcissist, as well, my half sister is narcissistic. About two years ago, after leaving a man who seemingly did nothing bad to me but got me suicidal like my mother did, I found out him and her are what we call "covert Narcissists", I prefer HG Tudor's description of a mid-range Narcissist, though. I them realised I have(had) CPTSD due to the abuse. In my worst days I matched the Autism spectrum. One of my Exes is an Aspergers, we were a couples for five years, so when someone told me that a friend(he's a Psychologist and "knows" him for about 20 years) of my narc Ex diagnosed him an Aspergers by his behaviours, I knew that this diagnosis was rubbish. I read that Elon has CPTSD today, he's diagnosed Aspergers and HG Tudor (check him on Youtube) has diagnosed him a Narcissist. I stick with the latter, it takes a lot to see through these very much overlapping diagnoses. The difficulty behind all of this, imo, is to understand a person's intentions behind their words and actions. I've been mistaken for a Borderline while my reactions came from CPTSD, the ongoing abuse I've endured and my toxic environment, throughout 49 years of my life. Since having learned about it two years ago, I made huge changes and I can easily detect which of my behaviours came from the abuse and which ones are my real personality.
Thank you for sharing Stellar. Apologies for the delay. Minus the AS aspect, your story sadly sounds like dozens if not hundreds I have read. I hope you know you didn't deserve any of it. Personally, I find covert narcissist very useful because it is accurately descriptive and a warning. I don't get anything out of mid-range but if it works for you, that's all that matters. I have noticed that Borderline gets inaccurately thrown around a lot, and I have never found its diagnosis either clear or very useful in CNI work either. Hopefully you can find a loving person/people who can help you heal more.
My mom was a narcissist. I didn't understand her until I got older and did some "reverse engineering ". There was domestic violence in my home but I was fortunate that I was able to get away from it. Of course, I had plenty of therapy at various times throughout my childhood/ younger adulthood. Part of that therapeutic process was confronting my mother about the abuse. I can't forget her reaction. My mother said, "I was a victim too".
Yes, an adult victim. Not quite the same as a dependent child.
I do not know all of my mother's diagnosis but I was told she had some form of Borderline Personality disorder although it seemed like some sort of narcissism to me and maybe that was included. I have a great deal of empathy for her.-to be stuck in a self- centered POV and not to be able to get past that! Wow.So difficult and so limiting. I don't know if the clinical information at the time, 1979s? Was correct but we understood this as borderline personality disorder.
Welcome RV and thank you for your message and paid subscription. Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it, all things considered and hopefully CNI will provide some further calm and clarity. I often grew up feeling guilty for having a loving Mom who to this day is still one of my best friends. It is truly amazing this somewhat hidden epidemic of kids being messed up by narcissists has so many repetitive themes.
Many in the CNI community have also shared their stories of narcissist moms and or dads. I praise and thank you for sharing your story, to help others see examples of those who have gone through and moved forward after unjust parental circumstances, and aiding in the understanding that it takes a lot of good therapy and loving environments to get back to mostly good.
The question I would ask as a tell of BPD is did your mom ever show a fair amount of self-awareness that her actions were making her own life miserable and wanted to change to make her life better. Not fake or insincere when caught change though. Those with BPD seem to be the only narcissists who have that level of self-awareness that they contribute to their on misery.
Actually, I think the joke on how many people does it take to change a light bulb was made with her in mind! A joke, but seriously the world needed to change, never my mom! I don't know that she had any insight on her condition and that is why I had a great deal of empathy for her. I am an old chicken myself, now and she has past on, so this is all old stories that perhaps can help others.
Of course growing up was not about being super understanding but more like lots of angry and misery due to a lack (often) of not having support, acceptance and affection. A narcissistic parent with BPD often depending on their issues is a mystery to themselves but due to the narcissism can be very demanding and needy without realizing the impact or needs of others like their children. Obviously, there is a gradation on these issues so it isn't all gloom and doom.
I came across your substack and thought I would check it out. My education was not in clinical science but in lab/ research/chemistry but I learned quite a bit as a science major and the standard premed undergrad classes before it becam straight molecule bending was a good base. I guess like most folks with a curious mindset tried to figure out what is going on by applying a little (or a lot!) of reverse-engineering on the symptoms and behaviors to figure out my parents. I most definitely worked through a book i had on personality disorders!
thx Sam… enlightening. maybe i’m spectrum as well as neuro stuff.
and for decades $5 is a lot, which is why i have no paid subscriptions. (long story) the disability/social security income is 810/mo. 5 is a bag of apples or a dozen eggs … i appreciate the work done by so many here on Substack… i appreciate being informed.
This premise which you wrote:
I believe he wants to inspire and excite humanity into a bright technological future, but then he consistently undermines his own science leadership, credibility and mission, with unnecessarily toxic, unscientific conspiracies.
is incorrect and I believe a mistaken understanding of Musk. Musk often says he wants to inhabit Mars . In fact this was given as the reason he needed an absurd side bonus because going to Mars was expensive. The latter is a lie. Musk cares first and foremost about $$ in his own pocket. The cover story of needed the $$ to bring humanity to Mars is a fraud like most of the nonsense Musk promotes. So parts 2 and 3 unfortunately for you should be free for all.
You are understandably conflating things that are not connected as parts 2-4 show. You are missing Musk can truly want to "inspire and excite humanity into a bright technological future" for purely his own benefit and glory, while also being compulsively fixated on putting $ in his pocket, as well as using it as a rationalization to justify any absurd bonus, as his psychological profile predicts and warns. I suspect you are not a sci-fi fan, because if you were you would likely see how he is really into making reality, sci-fi, and you would understand how both things can be true; Or your vision is clouded by a visceral hatred many understandably have of him based on his psychologically driven horrible behavior. Nice try though.
Late but happy to pay.
If one finds no value per month at,$5, truly, was it such a financial burden that you cannot course correct?
Thx
Welcome.
I would like to be able to read more, but I’m on a fixed income and got scammed out of my savings through my loneliness after my husband passed away. I truly don’t have $5 to give.
Very sorry to hear you were treated so badly. You are comped for a week, so you can read on.
Thank you so much.
Most welcome. The CNI goal is to have philanthropists support the work so those around the world who $5 means a lot to can have full access. The Elon piece is CNI's tent-pole to raise funds to support the work
We have some wonderfully kind & caring paid subscribers supporting the work when they don't have to, for the benefit of all.
Obviously, much more support is needed from those who can afford it, which is why the more commercial profile is 50% paywall.
For those who hate narcissists & can afford it, please give generously so we can counter more narcissists, do more small kindnesses & take more active measures.
@Sam Ray, your essay resonated with me on a deeply personal level, and I appreciate the thoughtful and layered exploration of Musk’s behaviors through the lenses of childhood trauma, narcissism, and neurodivergence. It’s refreshing to see these dynamics unpacked with such depth and care.
Reading your analysis, I found myself reflecting on my own experiences. Growing up with a mother who exhibited traits of narcissistic borderline personality disorder—and possibly a narcissistic father as well—I experienced her primarily as an oppressor. She could be cruel to the point of fault, exploiting me while simultaneously being perceived by others as a generous and kind person. Those on the outside respected her deeply, as long as they stayed on her good side. This duality—the private cruelty and public admiration—was deeply confusing and shaped much of my early life.
Your essay also brought to mind my own neurodivergence. While I’ve been tested for autism and Asperger Syndrome with negative results, I’ve always been highly sensitive and over-empathic, which makes navigating a world of social power dynamics especially challenging. My capacity for nearly inhuman hyper-focus has served me in certain areas, yet it also ties me to patterns shaped by childhood survival mechanisms.
In reading about Musk’s paradoxes—his capacity for brilliance alongside destructive tendencies—I saw reflections of my own history and, in some ways, of my mother’s behaviors. It took me four years of therapy to identify toxic shame as the underlying force in my struggles. During that time, I came to realize how disconnected I had been from my authentic self, shaped by years of living under survival mechanisms forged in an environment marked by narcissistic exploitation.
Your framing of Musk’s behaviors helped me see how often individuals like him—or even those of us shaped by similar dynamics—are reduced to simplistic narratives. Public figures are either celebrated or condemned, while the deeper complexities driving their actions are overlooked. Understanding these patterns is not just essential for analyzing public figures but also for helping those of us whose lives have been shaped by such dynamics find our way toward healing and wholeness.
Due to financial constraints, I currently live on 350 Euros a month with my cat, which makes it difficult for me to explore the next parts of your series. I don’t know if these ideas come up later, but I’m curious if you see ways to apply this understanding more broadly—not just in profiling influential figures but in supporting those who have been shaped by narcissistic environments. How might we use this awareness to help individuals reconnect with parts of themselves that have been hidden or suppressed?
Thank you for your thoughtful exploration of these themes. I look forward to seeing more of your work as it becomes available.
Musk is a sociopath, let us not dilute this any further. Musk is a grave danger and perhaps Eisenhower’s poster child of the threat in the military industrial complex he warned us about in his final speech as President.
Thanks and you are welcome Mimi. I wanted to root for Elon but sadly, after the four-part psychological profiling of him and his behavioral downward spiral ever since, I said have come to the conclusion from a psychological perspective that he is now far more likely to destroy humanity than to save it, because any goodness in him is quickly overwhelmed and manipulated by more dominant narcissists. Essentially, despite moments of brilliance, he almost certainly will never overcome his self-immolating narcissism caused by massive trama.