If we are talking about all forms of pathological narcissists, #s say likely 15-20%. The rest are the manipulated followers. Here is a good start to learn more about them. The key is to distinguish between the pathological like jones & trump, & those who can possibly wake up. https://samray.substack.com/p/trumpism-is-narcissism
Just finished reading the article recommended above, Excellent! Finally, someone explains it simply and concisely! It confirms one of my armchair theories - that some (many) followers have been previously conditioned by a narcissist. Explains a lot of people I know personally. Thank you!
60% and we would all be shooting each other. 6.2% is really high when you calculate based on population. Thats 20.8 million narcissists. 1 in 6 people. I think the malignant narcissists are about 1%. Of which Alex Jones and Trump fit.
Now for the susceptible. Are you asking for a friend, ie you want to oppress them? Or because you dont want to be one of those who falls for the narcissist? I am sure its the latter. Those who dont push back in boundaries have low self worth, have been taught to "turn the other cheek" etc, accept their lot in life. Funny how religion plays into making people more susceptible to Narcisissism. I guess that is the whole idea though, control. You can be smart you can be dumb, educated or not. Those things in and of themselves arent armor enough. Unless of course that education is on narcissism and how to avoid it.
whoa dude…I was asking about incidence of narcissism and etiology of NPD followers, I wasn’t asking for therapy or psychoanalysis. You are stepping over the line here!
You did well😊. I have met several narcissists over the years beginning in childhood thru stages of school and professional career. Out of the 10 maybe there was 3-4 malignant narcissists: those who never did anything unless there was something in it for them, always transactional and cared more about their next conquest ( business/dating/romance/) as well as needing the spotlight and grudgingly sharing it. I find that their kids shun them, the ex/spouses ( those who became aware and broke free) warn people and although their businesses and careers do well, they have no friends. No one says on their death bed I wish I made more money or got more praise but rather I they wish for more time w their family and friends ( this I know from the health care field). So its believable that their are over 6% M-NPD out there. And if I were ever to go to a CEO convention I’m sure it would reach 50%! One of the indicators for me is that these people do not have boundaries. How could they? No one else is really important enough to have that level of respect.
Bill, This is the second time since recently joining our community that you have gone after someone because you did not like or agree with their comment, hence a potential bullying pattern is forming. I am the only one allowed to bully at CNI, and my bullying is almost exclusively reserved for narcissists, trolls and those bullying others, so deserve it, and are far too often one and the same.
The first time the question was already resolved, you didn’t know, and mistakes happen, but once again I already answered what you addressed in a very negative and aggressive way towards someone in the community.
To be clear, negativity and aggression towards one community member seeking to learn more from another who still has a lot to learn is not acceptable behavior in the CNI think tank or philosophy. Spirited debate is encouraged but anything that is close to personal attacks or bullying will make the attacker lifetime ban / persona non grata.
Worse still, you are wrong and/or overly simplistic in % and other declarations, and bashing someone based on your opinions. Everyone here gets a few strikes and then a hair-trigger final warning. You have used all yours up so quickly that if you come at another community member again or spew a bunch of your opinion without very strong facts to back it up again, you will be banned.
I suggest you humbly apologize to PK for the unjust aggression and screed and you may earn a strike back. I think you have something to contribute here but we only tolerate constructive behavior at CNI, and what you have been putting out here is not that. This is your only and final warning.
As Sam Ray asked I will apologize for my behaviour. This is not about trying to appear correct or comformist I am sincerely sorry that I overstepped. My enmity towards malignant narcissist is not your cause and I will not bother you again.
Hi Sam, yet another classic from you. There are others like Tucker C et al who has a mega ordience, for that matter the whole of Fox Corporation. Sorry for my ignorance, are they the sad output of Reagan's Fairness doctrine?
Thanks so much Janaka. Yeah, that was indeed the point of the piece. To show that so many may seem different on the surface but inside they are very much all about themselves.
Reagan killing the fairness doctrine was indeed a big part of how we got here. Another big part was him, Bush sr, Bush jr, and trump kept removing limits on how much media one person can own, thus allowing not so many billionaires to buy up most of our media today..
You're not wrong. Obviously idk for sure but what I have observed from grandiose narcissist con men like Jones & trump is they totally believe what they are saying in the moment as great actors, but the truth is they don't believe in anything that doesn't serve them, & they don't really believe in those things either. They just know through trial & lots of error what works at fooling the "suckers & losers" into giving them the narcissistic $upply they crave pathologically. i.e. What they need to make it through the next 5 minutes, let alone the day.
I think you told me that before although several in the CNI community have said the same. So sorry you had to go through that unfair upbringing but huge credit to you for rising above. I'm interested in your process of going from one to the other but we should probably talk about that off the air sometime unless you want to share here.
I have an older sister whom I realized from reading a book on sociopaths in the 1980's was exactly one. Also malignant narcissist, though I don't know if the term was used back then. At any rate, it explained so much. She is almost 70 now, has only gotten worse over the years, and has wreaked untold damage on our family, her children, and her many exes. She fits nearly every criteria on every list of NPD's I've ever seen. It has been an extremely chilling experience. I stay far far away.
Very sorry you & your family had to go through that. Far too many do. It is very much a hidden epidemic that CNI is working to change, & will eventually lobby for laws to protect the innocent from such predators when we have the resources.
Malignant narcissist was coined in the 60s by psychologist Erich Fromm to more accurately describe the evil personalities of primarily hitler, & stalin too. For some reason, it became re-popularized when trump showed up ; (.
Sociopaths & MNs are almost the same thing so you are good using whichever is most effective in a given situation. You should find this 25 min pod about MNs helpful.
Thank you. I'm starting to think they're more common than I used to, or maybe they're just proliferating thanks to trump's display of such open evil. I will check out the pod.
A main part of CNI’s msg is they are indeed far more common than almost every society realizes, & that is a big part of why we are in this mess. However, they had been proliferating for a while before trump. He is not the cause, but he is an inevitable result.
Generally, narcissists of a feather do flock together in transactional common cause, but as soon as a lower narcissist takes up their superior's airspace, all bets are off.
It doesn’t take more than one rotten apple to destroy a whole barrel of apples, or a warehouse full of barrels full of apples. Not sure what that percentage would be, but it’s low compared to the damage. Recovering from the rot is another matter entirely and money cannot cure emotional trauma and pain. Ever.
The "game" of lies that Narcissists seem to play seems to always have a time limit. Only the wealthiest can avoid it for any length of time. Those malignant narcissists like Jones and my old mechanic past friend have about a 10 year run and then the pyramid of lies crashes down on them. Perhaps that is how long it takes for normal people to catch on. Or big changes in the economy or health (covid) force us to reevaluate such toxic relationships and get out.
Excellent analysis of a disturbed (and disturbing) person.
Thanks so much for the kind words & your support Chris!
Shocked that NPD is only 6.2% of the population. In this day and age, I would have believed 60.2%. It feels ubiquitous. Is it on the rise?
I would be interested in learning more about the personality type of people who are easily manipulated by people with NPD.
If we are talking about all forms of pathological narcissists, #s say likely 15-20%. The rest are the manipulated followers. Here is a good start to learn more about them. The key is to distinguish between the pathological like jones & trump, & those who can possibly wake up. https://samray.substack.com/p/trumpism-is-narcissism
Just finished reading the article recommended above, Excellent! Finally, someone explains it simply and concisely! It confirms one of my armchair theories - that some (many) followers have been previously conditioned by a narcissist. Explains a lot of people I know personally. Thank you!
Always glad to hear we are fulfilling the CNI mission to drop the curtain ; )
60% and we would all be shooting each other. 6.2% is really high when you calculate based on population. Thats 20.8 million narcissists. 1 in 6 people. I think the malignant narcissists are about 1%. Of which Alex Jones and Trump fit.
Now for the susceptible. Are you asking for a friend, ie you want to oppress them? Or because you dont want to be one of those who falls for the narcissist? I am sure its the latter. Those who dont push back in boundaries have low self worth, have been taught to "turn the other cheek" etc, accept their lot in life. Funny how religion plays into making people more susceptible to Narcisissism. I guess that is the whole idea though, control. You can be smart you can be dumb, educated or not. Those things in and of themselves arent armor enough. Unless of course that education is on narcissism and how to avoid it.
whoa dude…I was asking about incidence of narcissism and etiology of NPD followers, I wasn’t asking for therapy or psychoanalysis. You are stepping over the line here!
(How did I do? 😉)
You did well😊. I have met several narcissists over the years beginning in childhood thru stages of school and professional career. Out of the 10 maybe there was 3-4 malignant narcissists: those who never did anything unless there was something in it for them, always transactional and cared more about their next conquest ( business/dating/romance/) as well as needing the spotlight and grudgingly sharing it. I find that their kids shun them, the ex/spouses ( those who became aware and broke free) warn people and although their businesses and careers do well, they have no friends. No one says on their death bed I wish I made more money or got more praise but rather I they wish for more time w their family and friends ( this I know from the health care field). So its believable that their are over 6% M-NPD out there. And if I were ever to go to a CEO convention I’m sure it would reach 50%! One of the indicators for me is that these people do not have boundaries. How could they? No one else is really important enough to have that level of respect.
Well said and evidentiary personal experience contribution. Thanks Mitch.
Bill, This is the second time since recently joining our community that you have gone after someone because you did not like or agree with their comment, hence a potential bullying pattern is forming. I am the only one allowed to bully at CNI, and my bullying is almost exclusively reserved for narcissists, trolls and those bullying others, so deserve it, and are far too often one and the same.
The first time the question was already resolved, you didn’t know, and mistakes happen, but once again I already answered what you addressed in a very negative and aggressive way towards someone in the community.
To be clear, negativity and aggression towards one community member seeking to learn more from another who still has a lot to learn is not acceptable behavior in the CNI think tank or philosophy. Spirited debate is encouraged but anything that is close to personal attacks or bullying will make the attacker lifetime ban / persona non grata.
Worse still, you are wrong and/or overly simplistic in % and other declarations, and bashing someone based on your opinions. Everyone here gets a few strikes and then a hair-trigger final warning. You have used all yours up so quickly that if you come at another community member again or spew a bunch of your opinion without very strong facts to back it up again, you will be banned.
I suggest you humbly apologize to PK for the unjust aggression and screed and you may earn a strike back. I think you have something to contribute here but we only tolerate constructive behavior at CNI, and what you have been putting out here is not that. This is your only and final warning.
Yeap, apologies made. Thank you for your patience.
As Sam Ray asked I will apologize for my behaviour. This is not about trying to appear correct or comformist I am sincerely sorry that I overstepped. My enmity towards malignant narcissist is not your cause and I will not bother you again.
POS!
Hi Sam, yet another classic from you. There are others like Tucker C et al who has a mega ordience, for that matter the whole of Fox Corporation. Sorry for my ignorance, are they the sad output of Reagan's Fairness doctrine?
Thanks so much Janaka. Yeah, that was indeed the point of the piece. To show that so many may seem different on the surface but inside they are very much all about themselves.
Reagan killing the fairness doctrine was indeed a big part of how we got here. Another big part was him, Bush sr, Bush jr, and trump kept removing limits on how much media one person can own, thus allowing not so many billionaires to buy up most of our media today..
I think he believes a good chunk of the ghastly stuff he spouts, and that he also knows that spouting it gets him two things he does not deserve:
1. Attention
2. Money
You're not wrong. Obviously idk for sure but what I have observed from grandiose narcissist con men like Jones & trump is they totally believe what they are saying in the moment as great actors, but the truth is they don't believe in anything that doesn't serve them, & they don't really believe in those things either. They just know through trial & lots of error what works at fooling the "suckers & losers" into giving them the narcissistic $upply they crave pathologically. i.e. What they need to make it through the next 5 minutes, let alone the day.
My mother was a narcissist, so I'm a court-certified expert on them.
I think you told me that before although several in the CNI community have said the same. So sorry you had to go through that unfair upbringing but huge credit to you for rising above. I'm interested in your process of going from one to the other but we should probably talk about that off the air sometime unless you want to share here.
Go right ahead and contact me off-line through the message function and fire away with your questions.
I have an older sister whom I realized from reading a book on sociopaths in the 1980's was exactly one. Also malignant narcissist, though I don't know if the term was used back then. At any rate, it explained so much. She is almost 70 now, has only gotten worse over the years, and has wreaked untold damage on our family, her children, and her many exes. She fits nearly every criteria on every list of NPD's I've ever seen. It has been an extremely chilling experience. I stay far far away.
Very sorry you & your family had to go through that. Far too many do. It is very much a hidden epidemic that CNI is working to change, & will eventually lobby for laws to protect the innocent from such predators when we have the resources.
Malignant narcissist was coined in the 60s by psychologist Erich Fromm to more accurately describe the evil personalities of primarily hitler, & stalin too. For some reason, it became re-popularized when trump showed up ; (.
Sociopaths & MNs are almost the same thing so you are good using whichever is most effective in a given situation. You should find this 25 min pod about MNs helpful.
Thank you. I'm starting to think they're more common than I used to, or maybe they're just proliferating thanks to trump's display of such open evil. I will check out the pod.
A main part of CNI’s msg is they are indeed far more common than almost every society realizes, & that is a big part of why we are in this mess. However, they had been proliferating for a while before trump. He is not the cause, but he is an inevitable result.
Hey Sam, yeah. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Felonious Fuckweasel pics Alex Jones for his running mate. 🙄😏😎
narcissist trump will never pick anyone who takes attention away from him.
Hmmm. So, narcissists couldn’t work together for their common goal of adulation, and attention?
Generally, narcissists of a feather do flock together in transactional common cause, but as soon as a lower narcissist takes up their superior's airspace, all bets are off.
It doesn’t take more than one rotten apple to destroy a whole barrel of apples, or a warehouse full of barrels full of apples. Not sure what that percentage would be, but it’s low compared to the damage. Recovering from the rot is another matter entirely and money cannot cure emotional trauma and pain. Ever.
✨Excellent read !!!! ✨
The "game" of lies that Narcissists seem to play seems to always have a time limit. Only the wealthiest can avoid it for any length of time. Those malignant narcissists like Jones and my old mechanic past friend have about a 10 year run and then the pyramid of lies crashes down on them. Perhaps that is how long it takes for normal people to catch on. Or big changes in the economy or health (covid) force us to reevaluate such toxic relationships and get out.