21 Comments
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Mitch Moncrief's avatar

I think back to high school bullies one comes across while simply going about one’s business ( classes, sports, clubs). These people were such outliers creating chaos and insecurity. The enjoyment of inflicting physical or psychological pain and if lies intensified this to cause greater harm, so much the better for these psychotic individuals. So yes, they do this to show contempt and abuse people ( because to them everyone else is subhuman) but I can see that they also need this false reality that posits themselves as stable geniuses and their thinking/understanding is flawless ( I mean who even thinks this way aside from narcissistic megalomaniacs).

Sam Ray's avatar

idk high school bc mine was so friendly but many in Jr High did it bc they were bullied.

Paula Dean's avatar

My cruelest taunters were in elementary school, and I think it's because at that age they haven't yet learned how much damage they can cause. At least, I HOPE that's the reason.

Sam Ray's avatar

😢 - I was lucky in elementary school too. Usually child bullies have 😡🏠s

Paula Dean's avatar

Then 90% of my school mates came from angry homes. Probably, I was just a weird kid! 😅

Paula Dean's avatar

If he wasn't so dangerous to the entire world, I could almost pity him. He's never been safe or known love. He can't trust anyone, or any thing. He can't even sleep well...can you imagine his dreams? I can't think of a more miserable existence.

I wish that didn't please me, but I admit to my schadenfreude. He spends every waking moment of his life shoring up his crumbling walls, and dodging sharp objects. Lies are his best defense...and the lies are tissue paper.

Sam Ray's avatar

We can pity them because it is rarely their fault for being the way they are. At the same time, they are usually antisocial destroyers who can’t change & must be contained, so there’s little room for pity until after they are kept from hurting people. With narcissists, imo it’s karma not schadenfreude.

Mitch Moncrief's avatar

Part of the problem is that he is so simple, inability to understand or try to understand complex issues. No nuance and no incentive to do the work, to read or huddle w advisors for an hour or two to plan and play out the consequences. This could make him sympathetic as the low IQ epithet does apply and most of us have empathy for those unable to cope. But this megalomania gets in the way and when you are passed 700M by your father ( or perhaps just took it) we get someone who never should have made it this far w his cluster A and B disorders. See “Dark Towers” by David Enrich as it delves into the smart, ambitious banker as she convinces Deutsche Bank to give him a line of credit after all the bankruptcies—another lifeline thrown just like that ridiculous Apprentice show.

No real accomplishments. Constant grifting ( how many billionaires sell steaks, vodka, university programs, bibles, phones, coins, etc). He keeps it simple bec that’s all he knows and all he can do.

Helen Fontaine's avatar

Given the havoc these people cause in everyday life and geopolitics. (We have our own FAGA cult with Farage in the UK.) what concerns me is how little used the word ´Narcissism’ is. It helps so much with understanding the behaviour.

Why do you think it’s so underused and so misunderstood - it could help opponents to at least try to anticipate behaviour with the aim of reducing the power and effect.

It seems clear to me that the November mid terms are going to be rigged/cancelled/disputed and that people might die on the streets given the increasing power of ICE.

Paula Dean's avatar

Most people think narcissism is vanity. The concept of a human being who is incapable of empathy, love, compassion, or even a slight interest in anyone other than themselves, is difficult to believe possible. How can anyone really understand a person who sees others as cardboard cutouts, only around as set decorations, or as sources of temporary gratification - to be used, discarded and forgotten? Even the worst people we have the misfortune to meet, will be aware of the damage they cause and feel some remorse - even if it's only a moment. Narcissists are usually unaware that they have done anything wrong. It defies common sense.

I'm as worried about the midterms as you are. Trump is not capable of accepting defeat or facing any consequences. He will do everything he can, without concern about laws or approval, to prevent any loss of power. He's been preparing for a fight, probably since he failed on January 6th. He has learned how to survive the next time. I just hope we have prepared equally.

Sam Ray's avatar

Hello Helen, Thank you for your support & sharing your perspective from across the pond. It is very concerning & a little 🤯 that “narcissism” isn’t used much in 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 either. I have often expected older cultures to have greater awareness & understanding of concepts, but I keep being disappointed. 😢🤬

Hence, the need to build up CNI to fill the vacuum of a generational think tank that helps educate the 🌎, because the opposite has been happening for decades.

The abstract nature of the content is the primary reason behind CNI's plainspoken language. That's how Thomas Paine did it 🤞🏻. The answers are there. It just needs to be made less confusing by the jargon and abstractions the industry uses. Sadly, the word "narcissism" itself is often abstract for most.

The following explains a big part of why people don't get it. Cheers!

https://samray.substack.com/p/psychiatry-and-psychology-are-failing

This is CNI's foundational piece.

I suspect it works if farage = trump, farageism = trumpism, & gop = tories.

https://samray.substack.com/p/trumpism-is-narcissism

Helen Fontaine's avatar

Thanks for replying directly.

Love the work that you are doing it’s helped me make sense of the world politically & personally.

Î’m so frustrated that mainstream journalism does not give this subject the respect it deserves.

I wonder if individuals that have had direct and damaging experience of narcissists are just more interested in understanding the how and why.

I would love to find a way to help get the information to a wider audience. We could actually try and pre-empt events.

I do push this thinking by replying on other substacks threads where appropriate and I’ll keep it up, but I wish there was more I could do.

A big name to promote the thinking on both sides of the pond would be great.

Thanks again and keep up the good work. Hope it doesn’t get you down. ☺️

Sam Ray's avatar

🎯 on thinking that those who have experienced the direct & damaging effects of narcissists have more understanding of the how & why. It is usually the case that people can't fathom these predators without personal experience. I seem to be an exception because my narcissism edu came from helping a friend escape one. The CNI vision is to have a few deep-pocket philanthropists who get it fund 🌎 plans, because no doubt some wealthy folks get how much narcissists suck.

Stuart's avatar

b/c he is unaware of a concept called 'truth'

Also called 'spare the rod, spoil the child -

or, in his case, 'spare the rod, spoil the child, family, house, street, village, town, city, state, country, planet' ;-(

Sam Ray's avatar

idk. I think he is aware of the concept of truth. It just has a different meaning to him.

Also, it was a sociopath for a father & 🧬 that made him this way & he was hit by Dad.

Fred raised all of his kids to be like him & liddle donny was the one it worked on most.

Mitch Moncrief's avatar

I think you’re right. The older siblings got the worst of it and he decided that he would survive childhood by performing the cruelty of his father. The older brother decided to get out of the family business and become a pilot but the PTSD caused alcohol use disorder.

Paula Dean's avatar

It didn't help that donny took Fred Jr's inheritance.

Mitch Moncrief's avatar

For the most part you can stay in your own lane in hs but there is no advanced /honors music class or gym class. I remember a gym teacher kicking one of the more established bullies in the head which I’m sure was taken by the bully as a great honor. HS was a training ground for the cluster a cluster b disorders which become more distinguishable as one moves on.

Sam Ray's avatar

I don’t doubt it. I was very lucky to be in a very cool, smart & studly class.

Suki Herr's avatar

I have only undergraduate courses in psychology, but Trump to me seems not to know what’s a truth or what’s a lie. His entire decision making strategy is whatever is best for him is what’s real.

I think Donald hates with the fiery rage of 1000 burning suns the wealthy higher class, particularly of NYC. He despises those poor people who show up at his rallies&vote for him.

I don’t think Trump is smart enough for long term strategy. It’s what works in the moment for him.

Sam Ray's avatar

🎯 & malignant narcissists hate everyone including themselves.